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Episode 4

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Published on:

8th Nov 2024

FOR THE DARK GODS! Chaos Factions of Warhammer 40k

Episode #4: Exploring the Factions of Chaos in Warhammer 40,000

Joshy and Jonny are back, continuing their laid-back methodology to break down the factions of Chaos in Warhammer 40k. In this episode, we dive into the bloodthirsty forces of Khorne, the sickening plagues of Nurgle, the twisted excess of Slaanesh, the unknowable schemes of Tzeentch, and the relentless power of Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Knights. Covering each faction’s thematic style, in-universe lore, hobby accessibility, and tabletop gameplay, this episode has something for everyone. After all, it’s fun to be bad!

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 TTP Field Manual is brought to you by Joshy and Jonny, best friends and gaming enthusiasts from their local group, Trust the Process Hobbies. Die-hard fans of the Warhammer universe, we use this podcast as a platform to share our passionate (and somewhat humorous) ramblings about all things Grimdark.

 By day, Joshy is a therapist; by night, he's an RPG aficionado who grew up on (not-so) Final Fantasies and crafting his own Dungeons & Dragons worlds. Jonny, a hospitality manager, spends his downtime conquering more video games than Joshy can keep track of.

Transcript
Josh:

Hello, you lot.

Josh:

This is the TTP field manual.

Josh:

Josh is talking at you once more.

Josh:

Welcome back.

Josh:

Today we are talking about Chaos factions in Warhammer 40,000.

Josh:

I am joined, as always, by my dear good friend, totally fall into Chaos.

Josh:

Johnny.

Josh:

Hello.

Johnny:

How we doing?

Josh:

I'm doing pretty good.

Josh:

I assume you're feeling very good about today's topic.

Johnny:

Oh, we're finally in my hometown.

Johnny:

It's great.

Josh:

In the Warp.

Josh:

Hometown in the Warp.

Johnny:

That's it.

Josh:

That's it.

Josh:

We made it through several episodes talking about literally every other faction you can play in this game, talking about their lore, talking about the visual and thematic stylings of them, talking about whether they're an expensive army to collect, a high skill ceiling army to play, etc.

Josh:

But today, you get to take us through the realms of Chaos.

Johnny:

Oh, it's where all the wacky, fun stuff goes on, right?

Josh:

Yeah, fun.

Josh:

Fun's one way of putting it.

Johnny:

What do you mean?

Josh:

How does Chaos.

Josh:

How is Chaos more fun with everything that goes on in the twisted, you know, not exactly emotional, but just twisted nonetheless.

Josh:

Warp.

Josh:

How is Chaos so different to the Imperium in being more fun?

Josh:

Both are awful.

Johnny:

Well, yes, both are awful.

Johnny:

Let's be real.

Johnny:

We're talking about a natural force of entropy, essentially a space between realities that just eats and mutates everything around.

Johnny:

And.

Johnny:

But the thing is, it makes things more fun.

Johnny:

It's okay with you exploring your vices.

Johnny:

It's okay with you embracing change and all of these things that the Imperium just say no to.

Johnny:

Where the.

Johnny:

Whereas the Imperium controls everyone and everything.

Johnny:

Chaos just wants you to do your thing and give you the tools to.

Josh:

Chaos wants you to be your true self.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

For better or worse.

Johnny:

So vote Chaos at your next election.

Josh:

But let's not talk about elections with that.

Johnny:

That brief introduction to Chaos.

Josh:

Probably, like, just clarify exactly, like, what the Warp is though, right?

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

So the Warp is, as I said, the space between space.

Johnny:

It is a turmoily river of emotional influence.

Johnny:

Everyone's soul is linked to the Warp because souls are inherently warp energy.

Johnny:

So all of your emotional needs come fuel what might be in there.

Johnny:

And even the Chaos Gods are beings of emotion.

Johnny:

They are beings of certain ideas.

Johnny:

And obviously with how grim, dark, and gritty things are in the 40k universe, the gods kind of are pretty grim and gritty as well.

Johnny:

One focusing on bloodshed and murder as well as honor.

Johnny:

And like 1v1 stuff like this in Khorne, you've got the plague, Grandfather Nurgle, who is focused on disease and Pestilence, but also medicine and healing.

Johnny:

You've got Slaanesh, the God of excess, focusing on both like perfection as well as lust and desire and anything that you could want to do and going as far as these things can take you.

Johnny:

And then you've got Tzeentch, the God of magic and change, who focuses on knowledge and those needs to fulfill your mind, essentially.

Johnny:

And fueling a lot of the psionic energies.

Johnny:

And nestled in amongst this, there are space Marines and entities that look to these creatures, these emotional entities as gods and ask favor or do jobs to help them and worship them as gods.

Johnny:

And that's where we.

Johnny:

We kick into our first faction in the Chaos being the Chaos Demons, which are the entities that work for these godlike figures.

Johnny:

We have different demons, which is a bit of a weird word.

Johnny:

It's the Imperium's term for what they really are.

Johnny:

They are warp entity made manifest.

Josh:

Yeah, they're basically extensions of the warp soup, aren't they?

Josh:

They're not exactly individuals, they just are extensions of it.

Johnny:

Yeah, exactly.

Johnny:

They are, yeah.

Johnny:

Just the warp made into a physical form.

Johnny:

They are an idea with legs, essentially.

Josh:

Unfortunately for everyone in the modern setting, you know, we have the Warp, you could call it other things, the Imperium, perhaps the astral plane, etc.

Josh:

And as you mentioned, they are beings of emotion.

Josh:

But when you've had 60 million years of war and conflict, starting from, you know, the Necrons, genociding the various other races, you've had the whole, like human conflicts in recent times.

Josh:

The Aeldaris, like civilizations fall.

Josh:

Whilst, you know, the gods might mean well in this setting, they've kind of become twisted and perverse to the most sort of negative components of it, haven't they?

Johnny:

Oh, they definitely have, yeah.

Josh:

We have Chaos Demons, though.

Josh:

They are their own faction.

Johnny:

They are.

Johnny:

They are the Warhammer Fantasy 40K crossover faction, which sits in a weird spot in the hobby.

Johnny:

It is.

Josh:

Do you remember when we tried to figure out the connection for that?

Johnny:

Oh, man.

Johnny:

Sitting there and trying to work out why the same demon can exist in two different realities.

Johnny:

@ the end of the day, the answer is it's the space between dimensions and they are separate dimensions.

Johnny:

And these guys can sometimes just go there.

Josh:

Yeah, the warp just creeps through all the games workshop realities, eh?

Johnny:

Essentially it's its own little cinematic universe.

Josh:

To the perceptions of these, there's four concentrated sort of sources of this energy.

Josh:

As you mentioned, there has been more.

Josh:

There may be more in the future.

Josh:

But to these big four, you can't even really say they're focused exactly on 40k.

Josh:

They just see everything omnipotently, which is kind of fun if you want to really save money.

Josh:

Just play Chaos Demons and you get two games.

Johnny:

Yeah, but in a weird space you can kind of play them both in Age of Sigma and in 40K, but also not really.

Johnny:

It's like this weird crossover that almost works.

Josh:

You can play them more effectively as a Chaos demon faction in 40k.

Josh:

In Age of Sigma they really expanded the four styles of demons to include more of like a cults side of things.

Josh:

You've got like the Blades of Khorne or your gladiators, etc.

Josh:

Whereas in 40k you've got more of a space Marine adjacent thing.

Josh:

But you still have the Chaos Demon's core.

Josh:

Do they exactly play particularly different though?

Josh:

The answer is a big maybe the.

Johnny:

Answer is yeah, kind of.

Josh:

Yeah, kind of like they have the various demons of the four various Chaos Gods.

Josh:

Khor, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch all have a specific role within the army.

Josh:

But it's a bit hard to actually get everything to play all four parts of the army because a lot of these models are old man old and.

Johnny:

A lot of them are weirdly supported but out of print.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

The start box is exclusively Corn Demons.

Josh:

The start box to get you into this faction is entirely Corn Demons, which.

Johnny:

Puts you into a very melee focused game style that if you gel with that.

Johnny:

Cool.

Johnny:

If you wanted something a little more balanced, it's.

Johnny:

It can be difficult to find some of the other Chaos Demon models to actually field.

Johnny:

But shall we get into our ratings?

Josh:

I think before we quite get into that, we should give a brief description of the each of the four like.

Josh:

Each of the four in terms of like their visual identity and what that means as well to play them in the tabletop.

Josh:

And then I think going into the ratings would be easy then Corn Demons to start with.

Johnny:

They are in the starter box.

Johnny:

They are the more recent sculpts for the mortal range as well.

Johnny:

Are your melee brutes.

Johnny:

They are your very typical what you would see in fantasy from like a demon.

Johnny:

They are blood and skulls and wings.

Josh:

And claws and very Christian depiction of Hell.

Johnny:

Yes, Very focused on the melee front of the force.

Johnny:

They don't shoot well, if at all.

Johnny:

But they love to get into a fight.

Johnny:

They know their base battle line unit.

Johnny:

The Bloodletters are squishy with big swords.

Johnny:

They hit like a truck.

Johnny:

But they die really easily.

Josh:

Especially if you're fighting Imperial agents.

Johnny:

Oh yeah.

Johnny:

Your Nurgle Associated demons.

Johnny:

Your nurglings, your plaguebringers are kind of your gross, swampy, diseased, big, bulbous and full of pus and pustules.

Johnny:

They're gross and big and fat and full of some of the cutest models in the entire range.

Johnny:

Because for some reason, Warhammer has fun with Nurgle.

Josh:

Nurgle has probably the most fun from what I've seen in the whole, like, chaos setting.

Josh:

There's this one novel I listened to where this one planet's taken over by this, like, plague of Nurgle.

Josh:

And the, like, greatest, biggest demon of Nurgle's just like, basically doing like a carnival show with his nurglings as they erupt from the bloated carcasses of things.

Josh:

And he's singing and the nurglings are dancing and all the pus puddles.

Josh:

And the whole scene is meant to be comedic.

Josh:

But if you weren't part of Nurgle, holy crap.

Josh:

Like, you're vomiting your guts up just because they're right next to you.

Johnny:

Disgusting and wonderful all at the same time.

Josh:

Slaanesh has lots of fun, though.

Johnny:

Slaanesh is your fast moving, slim, semi melee, focused army.

Johnny:

They have some very interesting models that have definitely moved away from their previous over sexualization.

Johnny:

They are your slave sort of vibe with whips, and I'm just making it sound like they're still sexualized.

Josh:

They're BDSM demons.

Johnny:

Yeah, sure.

Johnny:

They kind of are.

Josh:

They are.

Josh:

They are the excess demons that just happen to manifest as your fast attack units.

Josh:

And so naturally are very dexterous, feminine bodies.

Josh:

And because they're really quick, they have a lot of that, like, you know, slim blades, whips, etc.

Josh:

But they're definitely Meteor 7 demons.

Johnny:

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Josh:

And then easy to define compared to Tzeentch.

Johnny:

Yes.

Johnny:

Tzeentch, being the God of change, is probably the weirdest to stick in a box.

Josh:

The most Eldritch.

Johnny:

Yes, for sure.

Johnny:

We have their battleline unit, which are blue and pink horrors that split and change and become smaller versions.

Johnny:

They have a little bit of like a bird vibe is the easiest way to put it.

Johnny:

With their Lords of Chains, they've got a few beaky things, but then other than that, they're kind of just like weird, amorphous amalgamations of arms and legs.

Josh:

And then you have them as your midline spellcaster unit.

Johnny:

Yeah, they're your more ranged option with weird shenanigans.

Josh:

All right.

Josh:

It's a pretty good groundwork, I think.

Josh:

Now we could definitely fall into how we personally rate the factions.

Johnny:

How did you find the Chaos Demon faction as a.

Josh:

As a whole, I'm actually pretty positive on Chaos.

Josh:

I just don't seem to collect them.

Josh:

I actually quite enjoy Chaos.

Josh:

Chaos Demons, however, tied for my lowest overall.

Johnny:

Oh, wow.

Josh:

Score in the Chaos range.

Josh:

Funnily enough, y part of that's just that a lot of the models are old.

Josh:

A similar problem I had with other factions that I do like, such as Drukhari and Grey Knights.

Josh:

The models just need a bit of a range refresh, and then I'm totally on board.

Josh:

I gave them four for style.

Josh:

I love the eldritch horror of them.

Josh:

I love how different they all are.

Josh:

I love that you have your Infernal Demons of Khorne, your Tankish blobs of nurgle, etc.

Josh:

And I love that you have a lot of different tiers, I suppose, of Demons from your lowly battle line soldiers all the way up to what are known as Greater Demons.

Josh:

And they are akin to, like the knights that you like so much.

Josh:

Just these huge centerpiece models that really just tie your army together.

Josh:

Love the style.

Josh:

For the Lore, I like them.

Josh:

I'm just not really, like, excited by them.

Josh:

So I gave them a 2.

Josh:

They seem to be more of a.

Josh:

Like a base ingredient for other factions.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

And so because of that, I tend to like the other factions more as they really run with the theme.

Josh:

For accessibility, I gave them a three.

Josh:

It would be higher if it was, you know, easier to acquire, but there's a lot of options and variety in an army, which is always good.

Josh:

And then for gameplay, I gave them a 3.

Josh:

It'll be interesting to see what they do when the Codex releases.

Josh:

I assume that each of the four demon groups will get a flavored detachment, but it's going to feel real bad if there's not some new models to really, like, fluff that, like, fluff that detachment up, you know, for sure.

Johnny:

For sure.

Josh:

12 for me.

Johnny:

Well, we had similar ratings.

Johnny:

The only difference is I gave them a five for style because I really like the aesthetic of all of the different demons and the vibes, and I really do like what they have.

Johnny:

But yes, the.

Johnny:

The Lore does definitely feel like they are a base ingredient.

Johnny:

We'll see later on that a lot of the other Chaos factions have a higher rating in Lore because, you know, they've expanded on this premise.

Johnny:

Accessibility are three similar reasons.

Johnny:

There's a lot of models.

Johnny:

Some of them are hard to get, but there is a lot of variety out there.

Johnny:

And the gameplay.

Johnny:

I gave a three as well, because they seem Fine.

Johnny:

And yeah, they will obviously get some sub factions when they get a codex, but the gameplay in and of itself at the moment is still pretty cool.

Johnny:

With their four distinct play styles trying to work together, I think it's a nice puzzle to try and learn.

Josh:

They really play off of morale as a mechanic as best as they can in this, in the current edition of the game, which is cool.

Josh:

Yeah, it would be nice to just see what they do with that in the future.

Josh:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yep.

Josh:

So what did that total for you?

Johnny:

Ah, 13.

Johnny:

One up for me.

Josh:

Okay, cool.

Josh:

Next up, your boys.

Johnny:

Next up, we're gonna move into Chaos Space Marines.

Johnny:

This is your Space Marines, but with more fun.

Johnny:

No more spiky bits is the better.

Josh:

Way of putting it.

Josh:

More spiky bits.

Josh:

There you go.

Josh:

There are some questionable dudes in here.

Johnny:

Oh yeah, and some.

Johnny:

The Chaos Space Marines are for the most part veterans from the old Horus Heresy age.

Johnny:

There are some that have been created since using some weird and wacky methods from either using Gene Seed that they have stolen or from other Chaos Space Marines who have passed these.

Josh:

They also have some like Modern age traders as well, forming new warbands as well.

Johnny:

Yeah, for sure.

Johnny:

They definitely do.

Johnny:

This is one of the more fleshed out armies in the game.

Johnny:

Having been around since the dawn of time.

Johnny:

They are, for the most part Space Marines.

Johnny:

They tend to have a lot more mutation and weird and wacky stuff going on, but for the most part, they are still super soldiers.

Josh:

Yeah, they have a lot of analogy to Space Marines, of course, because they start off as, you know, normal Space Marines.

Josh:

A lot of their patterns of armor and heavy support vehicles will actually be just about identical, except for the spikes and trophy racks and evil sigils.

Josh:

I found it quite interesting that because there's an even amount of traitor legions to loyalist legions from that heresy era, everyone's kind of got an analogy.

Josh:

You've got like the sneaky bad guys, the Alpha Legion compared to the sneaky good guys, the Raven Guard.

Josh:

You've got like the more recent Traders, the Red Corsairs, the speedy bad guys compared to the speedy good guys, the White Scars.

Johnny:

Yeah, I dislike your term good guys, but yes, you make a valid point.

Josh:

But they also bring in like cultists and stuff like that.

Josh:

So there's more than just Space Marines in here.

Josh:

You can add the daemons in from Chaos Daemons as an allied unit, and some of the actual Chaos Space Marines became so unique they became their own factions.

Josh:

We'll discuss later.

Josh:

What else do you have to say about them?

Josh:

From, like, a gameplay and army collection and even a lore standpoint, they.

Johnny:

The easiest way to think of these guys is, whereas your Space Marines are very clean, very militant, very focused, these guys are a little more gritty and dirty.

Johnny:

There's a lot of spikes, and there's a lot of weird trim that you have to, like, paint, which is definitely a challenge that you need to be aware of when you start collecting Chaos Space Marines is.

Johnny:

Trim is everything, but it actually helps to make them look very good on the table as well, with patience and a little bit of effort.

Johnny:

Their lore is expansive, and as you said, they have an analogy in the Space Marines.

Johnny:

In the Space Marines as well.

Johnny:

So there's a lot of similar tropes and gameplay styles that you can play just with a slightly different twist.

Johnny:

For the most part, they tend to use old pattern equipment compared to the newer age Space Marine stuff.

Johnny:

We don't have Repulses and all of these cool Dreadnoughts anymore, but we do have their old baby Dreadnoughts and we do have old Predator tanks that they've, like, taken from old usage and made their own.

Johnny:

There's definitely a feel of, like, Renegades and Raiders as a feel for the entire army.

Johnny:

Thank you.

Johnny:

As a feel for the entire faction as a whole.

Johnny:

They definitely feel like outcasts and broken, isolated sections, whereas the Imperium works very much in one cohesive unit.

Josh:

Do they, though?

Johnny:

They pretend that they do.

Josh:

No one can get along in this setting.

Johnny:

No.

Johnny:

And I mean, when you're.

Johnny:

When you're building a war game out of miniatures and then trying to add lore, you kind of have to give everyone reason to fight everyone, right?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Even.

Josh:

Even Chaos Space Marines will fight themselves.

Josh:

You know, you hear about sort of one of the key instigators of the heresy, the word bearers.

Josh:

They are Chaos Space Marines that dabble more into demonic possession than the other Chaos Legions.

Josh:

But they will just straight up go murder like the next Chaos Space Marines group to just achieve some impossible agenda the Chaos Gods asked of them.

Josh:

You know, there's so much infighting here, it's kind of hilarious.

Johnny:

Even in the novels that I've read and listened to, it's so hard for these guys to work together, and they're always trying to backstab each other.

Johnny:

There's always another agenda, another reason.

Josh:

Yeah, I find the Chaos Marine novels a lot more engaging than the Space Marine novels for the most part.

Josh:

There's some tragic Space Marine novels which are very gripping.

Josh:

But one thing to remember is a lot of the Chaos Space Marines have been around for, like, 10,000 years and going and hiding inside the warp, which there are certain tears in real space they can use to get into the warp.

Josh:

This alternate reality, they are sort of cut off from the passage of time so that, you know, they don't just turn into old wizened things and just fall apart.

Josh:

No, they.

Josh:

They come out and they, you know, they know the history of the Imperium.

Josh:

They know how hypocritical it's become.

Josh:

They, you know, walked amongst the gods, so to speak, and they have all this, you know, history to every single Chaos Space mar.

Josh:

It's really nice to see compared to the Space Marines, which might have been around for like, 200 years, comparatively.

Josh:

And they're all Julian, honor, brother.

Josh:

And in the Chaos Space Marine, like, I know your dad.

Josh:

Your dad was a pos, you know.

Johnny:

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Johnny:

Yep.

Josh:

Do you want to give them some ratings?

Johnny:

I sure do.

Johnny:

These guys are, I think, tied for my highest rating.

Johnny:

No, not quite.

Josh:

I'm not surprised.

Josh:

I'm not surprised that you would say both of those statements in a row.

Johnny:

For style.

Johnny:

I've given them a four.

Josh:

Yeah, fair.

Johnny:

I think that they're very near perfect.

Johnny:

They definitely have a lot of fun, a lot of cool instances.

Johnny:

They.

Johnny:

Yeah, as we said, we've been going through, like, they're just.

Johnny:

They're just having a blast, man.

Johnny:

Everyone's trying to do their own agenda.

Johnny:

Everyone's working against each other while pretending to cooperate from a lore perspective.

Johnny:

I gave them a five.

Johnny:

I think they have some of the more impelling and gripping lore they have.

Johnny:

I mean, nightlords who are terrifying to read about.

Johnny:

They've got the word bearers who are religious fanatics that started the greatest divide in human history.

Johnny:

You know, they've got giant siege engines and demon engines that are just vehicles filled with the souls of a demon.

Johnny:

It.

Johnny:

It's super cool and really impelling.

Johnny:

I've given their accessibility A4.

Johnny:

I think they have a very good range with some very good models.

Johnny:

A lot of their older models still stand up.

Johnny:

Okay.

Johnny:

Today, and they do have some old models, but some of them are very in need of a refresh, if you can.

Johnny:

The only reason I didn't give them a 5 is because trim is terrifying.

Johnny:

It's.

Johnny:

When you come to paint these.

Johnny:

When you come to paint these guys, a lot of people will suggest you paint them in the color of the trim and then fill in the gaps.

Josh:

Ah, that's smart.

Josh:

I didn't think of that.

Johnny:

But if you can get past the insane amount of trim on a hell Drake.

Johnny:

I feel like the model looks so glorious with patience as opposed to effort.

Johnny:

There's no secret techniques to making these guys look good.

Johnny:

And then for gameplay, I gave them a five.

Johnny:

They're one of the more fleshed out and internally balanced groups in the game.

Johnny:

They have quite a few detachments that perform at a decent level.

Johnny:

Their different gameplay styles come across while still sticking to this, like, gambling theme where they can get benefits, but there's a chance at them getting injured as they make Dark pacts to the Dark.

Josh:

Gods after versing Yue sometimes forget that there is the potential to roll badly and be hurt by your dark pact you're making.

Johnny:

I mean, in saying that it doesn't happen very often with me.

Johnny:

I've had a lot of luck.

Josh:

All right, chat if you will.

Josh:

When you verse Chaos Space Marines, they can essentially do this dice gamble, like any time they go into like a fight, right, a shooting or a melee and there's like what, like a roughly 40% chance you failed the roll and you get hurt.

Johnny:

For the most part, yes, you can.

Josh:

Still get the benefit, you know, if you're hurt.

Johnny:

But you might have to sacrifice someone.

Josh:

To the gods, but you never seem to fail.

Josh:

You are Chaos Pill.

Josh:

You are praising Tzeentch in public or something holy.

Josh:

Oh, all of your opponents, me with my Necrons, our other mate with Space Marines, our other other mate with Orc failing these leadership checks and amidst the chaos is got his back covered by these Chaos Gods.

Johnny:

It's.

Josh:

What did that total you out though?

Johnny:

An 18.

Josh:

That's pretty good.

Johnny:

Where are you sitting with these guys?

Johnny:

Where do you gel?

Josh:

I'm somewhere between a 13 to a 15, which, you know what, it's not bad.

Josh:

Chaos Space Marines I like similar to Space Marines in my eyes.

Josh:

Not for, you know, what they visually represent, but just in terms of like a collection and game perspective.

Josh:

I'm just a bit indifferent to it.

Josh:

But I am more positive on the Chaos Space Marines, that's for sure.

Josh:

For style, I'm sort of between a 3 and a 4.

Josh:

I am not really sure.

Josh:

For lore, I'm between like a three to four as well.

Josh:

You know, I'm not really sure which way to go.

Josh:

I'm pretty positive though, so I would likely just be higher for the style.

Josh:

I love that there's so much differentiation in the group of models here.

Josh:

You know, you've talked about the word bearers, the Demon Boys, the Night Lords are your, you know, terror tactics group.

Josh:

You've got the classic Black Legion, which are your, you know, as like quintessential Chaos Space Marine.

Josh:

You got Alpha Legion.

Josh:

They're your infiltrators.

Josh:

The Chaos Cult is actually like the human servants, the lost and the damned, the corrupted guardsmen, etc.

Josh:

They have their own sort of sub faction within the faction as a whole.

Josh:

I feel like there's more.

Josh:

There's the demon engines, there's the vehicles you mentioned.

Josh:

There's so much there.

Josh:

It's pretty cool.

Josh:

And the lore is just really fun for accessibility four for me, gameplay four for me.

Josh:

It's really nice to see everything get represented within the Chaos Codex.

Josh:

The crusade stuff seems very fun with like ascending a character through like demonic possession and gaining artifacts of power.

Josh:

If you want to play a narrative ongoing game.

Josh:

Yeah, just cool.

Josh:

I'm happy that you love them so much.

Josh:

You're always having fun with them on the tabletop.

Johnny:

Even if I don't win all the.

Josh:

ike somewhere around like the:

Josh:

I would say if I'm leaning all.

Johnny:

Positive, hey, I'll take it.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

A lot of the other factions we'll talk about, except the last one, they're basically the same rating just for different reasons.

Josh:

I'll just put that out there now.

Josh:

But that will take us to the next one.

Josh:

The Thousand Sons.

Josh:

Was it.

Josh:

Were we talking about these guys next?

Johnny:

We sure are.

Johnny:

We as the person who has very recently started collecting these models as well.

Johnny:

They're pretty cool.

Josh:

Love them.

Johnny:

They've got some very nice looking models, some very interesting style to them.

Johnny:

These are the Necrons in human form.

Josh:

Yeah, they got a similar Egyptian theme.

Johnny:

Egyptian theme, but turned up to 11.

Johnny:

They're devoted worshippers of Tzeentch.

Johnny:

Their primarch Magnus did nothing wrong.

Johnny:

Did everything wrong.

Johnny:

It is a bit of a meme in the community, but oh boy, did he not listen to his daddy.

Josh:

He meant well.

Josh:

Messed up and then thought about it.

Josh:

And then after most of his sons died in battle, he's like, actually, you know what?

Josh:

Yeah, screw that.

Josh:

And then just was an angsty emo teen for the next 10,000 years.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

The Thousand Sons had a bad case of mutation that forced them to basically seek Tzeentch's help in creating a.

Johnny:

What they call the Ahriman's Rubric.

Johnny:

The spell they cast to try and prevent their body mutations.

Johnny:

What it really did was turn their flesh to dust and it fused their souls into their armor.

Johnny:

So they're now kind of like war living armor.

Johnny:

It also removed a lot of their autonomy, which is why I also bring in that reference to the Necrons.

Johnny:

They're kind of suits of armor, whereas.

Johnny:

Similar to what happened to the Necrons all that time ago.

Josh:

Yeah, much like the Necrons too.

Josh:

The Thousand Sons that got dusted, if you will, were more of the non sorcerer variety of Thousand Sons.

Josh:

Their home world was very much like in the practice of teaching magic.

Josh:

Yeah, you got the sorcerers leading the dusty boys.

Josh:

Very Necron pilled.

Johnny:

And these guys are very sorcerous.

Johnny:

Their whole shtick is magic.

Johnny:

Being followers of the God of magic, they like to cast spaceships.

Josh:

Yeah, they're not spaceships.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

They are like windows in reality that just fold reality in on itself and then a door appears and then they just walk out of it.

Johnny:

They just pop right up.

Josh:

Wow.

Josh:

They're ballin'I.

Josh:

Love them.

Johnny:

These guys are super cool.

Johnny:

They have some really cool models.

Johnny:

They have some really cool characters.

Johnny:

They've got a really tragic backstory.

Johnny:

This is everything I want out of my Chaos Faction.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

With the exception of the sort of Ahriman saga of novels.

Josh:

Ahriman's Magnus, favored son, very powerful sorcerer.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Outside of them, they have come back into the game around a decade ish ago.

Josh:

The army range is a bit smaller.

Josh:

Thousand Sons have had a couple of community rumors of getting a lot more of the automata, but more of like magic possessed machinery.

Josh:

Like Mechanicus automata.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

But I.

Josh:

Oh man, I feel bad for Thousand sons because in 9th edition and prior there was a psychic phase.

Josh:

You would have like your command phase where you maybe do a couple of like commander abilities, roll a couple of resources, and then you'd move to movement phase, self explanatory.

Josh:

Then you would do the psychic phase where you apply spells before you then go into the classic shooting and melee and stuff like that.

Josh:

In 10th edition, they really wanted to sort of simplify the game and make it a bit more accessible.

Josh:

It's not that simple.

Josh:

But the psychic phase was folded into attacks and the Thousand Sons got shafted with a lot of their nuance, didn't they?

Johnny:

Oh, yeah.

Johnny:

They're definitely overly.

Johnny:

They were the masters of the psychic phase and now they've lost their mastery, you know.

Josh:

You know what I realized after doing like four episodes of this stuff?

Josh:

By now all the detachments that seem to come out, at least in this first batch of codices, they released them staggered.

Josh:

All the detachments are like, every army gets a melee focused one.

Josh:

Every army gets like a shooting focused one, a character focused one.

Josh:

They're all like the same.

Josh:

Same, but different.

Josh:

And it really Relies on the models you have access to to make the most out of those detachments.

Johnny:

Yeah, I mean, it's a competitive game, so they call it.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

But then the Thousand Sons, this whole schtick is psychic phase that doesn't like super exist at the moment.

Johnny:

Guess we'll have to see what happens when they get a credit.

Josh:

However, they are doing pretty well overall from like a, you know, a win rate perspective in like, high level play.

Johnny:

They have this army rule that focuses on the ability to cast spells using a resource you gain based on how many sorcerers you have, which kind of ties your like, psychic phase into your command phase.

Johnny:

Ish.

Johnny:

So they kind of get this weird hybrid psychic phase.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Okay.

Johnny:

And you have the ability to cast more than one spelling around based on how much of this resource you gather.

Josh:

It is a lot more digestible, I will admit.

Josh:

Psychic profiles were like, bloated, I must say.

Josh:

I read some 9th edition Necron codices preparing for one of our upcoming episodes.

Josh:

And like one character could have like.

Johnny:

10 abilities and they're all abilities you.

Johnny:

And you'd pick the abilities in your list building and then your opponent needs to know what all these abilities is like.

Johnny:

It's a lot to track.

Johnny:

So I understand why they did it, but they're pretty cool for ratings.

Johnny:

I will lead the way here because these guys are very high up there for me as well.

Johnny:

They got a total of 17 for me.

Josh:

No, that's just below Chaos Marines, isn't it?

Johnny:

Just below.

Josh:

Okay.

Johnny:

And you'll kind of see where for style, I've given these guys a5.

Johnny:

I think their models look so cool.

Johnny:

They're like big beast model is really fun.

Johnny:

There's a lot of magical sorceress elements.

Johnny:

Every single unit gets like a special sorcerer that leads them.

Johnny:

The model range isn't huge, but the style is all there in every single model.

Johnny:

Shows the Thousand Son style, which shows a lot of cohesion in the army.

Johnny:

For lore, I've given them a four.

Johnny:

They had some ups and downs in the lore, like moments where they were more pronounced and moments that they weren't.

Johnny:

Obviously.

Johnny:

Magnus was a very big character in the later events of the Horus Heresy.

Johnny:

The lore around Ahriman is really fun and desperate and fantastical in a sci fi setting.

Johnny:

So I gave them a 4.

Johnny:

For lore accessibility, I've given them a 3.

Johnny:

They don't have a huge range, which really limits what you can field.

Johnny:

And even then, for the most part, you're fielding a lot of the same guys.

Johnny:

They're very monopose and the trim is insane for the same reason that I had to, I had to, you know, dock a point off of Chaos Space Marines for their trim.

Johnny:

These guys turn it up to 11 or 12.

Josh:

This is like a kids coloring in book that's for some reason labeled like expert coloring in.

Johnny:

Yeah, yeah.

Johnny:

This is like giving an adult coloring in book to a kid.

Johnny:

It's insane.

Johnny:

But boy, do they look.

Josh:

They do.

Josh:

It's true.

Johnny:

And then for gameplay, I've given them a five.

Johnny:

I think the ability to cast spells and influence your units and is really cool.

Johnny:

Yeah, yeah.

Johnny:

It's that like fantasy element added into this sci fi universe.

Johnny:

They are an elite style army.

Johnny:

So they have quite a high cost point wise which both helps and hinders their abilities.

Johnny:

But they have this cool like flame sort of aspect.

Johnny:

Like a lot of flame weapons if you want to build in that way and they can be quite good.

Johnny:

Or you can go into your spells a little more and focus on the shooting and give them like keywords to make their shooting better.

Johnny:

They kind of just do a lot of cool things that I'm really excited to put these guys on the table.

Josh:

They combine two of your favorite gameplay elements, manipulating the system as a whole and magic.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

I'm surprised you didn't get these guys sooner.

Josh:

Eh?

Johnny:

I was scared of the trim.

Johnny:

Let's be real.

Josh:

Oh, fair.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Okay.

Josh:

You went from Necrons to Chaos Marines to Thousand Suns.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

It doesn't help.

Johnny:

Their starter boxes, not the best way to start the army.

Josh:

They're weird beastly, because it focuses more.

Johnny:

On their like culty sort of cheap units as opposed to their more practical battle line.

Josh:

Fun fact, I'm not sure if it was 9th edition or if it's current edition, but at some point the models, the Beastly Cultists, the Zangors, they had a caveat where you needed like I think a sorcerer in your list for every group of Zangors you ran.

Josh:

Because they, you know, you could keep them in your backline, hold objectives and then move the bulk of your army up pretty good.

Josh:

But the start box, the box that's like, hey, if you buy this, you can start your army decently.

Josh:

Well, all these boxes are well priced, but the Zangors outnumbered the sorcerers.

Johnny:

Yeah, I think that's a 9th edition mechanic.

Josh:

Yeah, I just find that kind of hilarious.

Johnny:

So legally you couldn't even run them in the same army at that point because.

Josh:

No, no, no, look, I do love Thousand Suns.

Josh:

I think it was that start box that actually stopped me from getting them because When I first got back into this hobby, I looked at Aeldari.

Josh:

As we discussed at that point in time, the models weren't great.

Josh:

I then looked at Thousand Suns because I love the magic aspect too.

Josh:

But I saw the boxes itself weren't, like, the most well balanced or stocked.

Josh:

Then I went into Necrons.

Josh:

That's fine, but I really liked the Thousand Suns at some point.

Josh:

I don't know what's changed since, but I'm just not as hot on them now.

Josh:

They were tied for, like, my next army, and now they're, like, lower than normal Chaos Space Marines for me.

Josh:

Somehow I gave them a four for the style, a three for the lore.

Josh:

There's just something more I want out of them, but I don't know what that is yet.

Josh:

They kind of suffer from the.

Josh:

We added this group of models into the game so you can play it and then, like, forgot to update them as a whole for a while.

Josh:

Like, they're there and Die Hard fans will know everything about them because there's always stuff to learn.

Josh:

But they're just lacking a little bit of that, like, background.

Josh:

I think.

Johnny:

They haven't been fleshed out as well.

Josh:

That.

Josh:

But for the range, though, I love the models.

Josh:

I'm sort of between a three and a four for them because they are cheap to get, relatively speaking.

Josh:

You don't have a lot of options to choose from, which makes list building actually easier.

Josh:

But I want to see a bit more out of them as well.

Josh:

I want to see maybe a couple of those, like, psychic automata that they had in the Heresy, like, lore.

Josh:

I want to see maybe a couple of different, like, they're called Rubric Marines.

Josh:

I want to see a couple of different, like, variants of them.

Josh:

Zangors can get shafted for all I care, though.

Josh:

Maybe like, a magic cultist mob would be nice, like your typical dudes, but, like, walking around like staffs.

Josh:

Or maybe they've, like, blinded themselves to see better, like, wizard them.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

That puts me at a.

Josh:

I think a 15.

Johnny:

All right, that's acceptable.

Josh:

Death Guard.

Josh:

Next faction.

Josh:

Nurgle's boys.

Johnny:

These guys are gross.

Josh:

I know.

Josh:

Do you.

Josh:

Are you squeamish?

Josh:

Don't look these up.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Nah, these guys are disgusting.

Josh:

Slaanesh.

Josh:

Slaanesh things.

Josh:

At least you can sort of look at them and think, that's not for me.

Josh:

But Nurgle will make you feel queasy the more you look and think about it.

Johnny:

But as we said before, Nergal has the most fun in terms of, like, what you See, in the lore and stuff like that.

Johnny:

Like, Nurgle loves his children.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

So Nurgle infects you.

Josh:

You get sick.

Josh:

You're puking your guts out.

Josh:

Awful.

Johnny:

The worst possible plagues.

Josh:

17 plagues at once.

Josh:

Instantaneous bubbles across your skin.

Josh:

Your eyes are swollen, blah, blah, blah.

Josh:

Nurgle psychically reaches out to you.

Josh:

Hey, do you want.

Josh:

Do you want to let me in?

Josh:

Do you want to, like, sell me your soul?

Josh:

And the moment you say yes, it doesn't hurt anymore.

Josh:

You might have, like, a distended jaw in your belly.

Josh:

You might have your arm burst out into a tentacle.

Josh:

You might have, like, eyeballs on your tongue.

Josh:

But you don't feel bad about it.

Josh:

You might be repulsed by what's happened to you, but you're not in pain.

Josh:

You're just part of Nurgle now.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Death Guard were led into the jaws of Nurgle by the word bearers, everyone's least favorite.

Johnny:

Oh, not.

Josh:

No.

Josh:

At the very end of the Horus heresy, Mortarion, primarch of the Death Guard, his first mate, or favored son, Typhus, is a sketchy boy.

Josh:

Typhus hijacked their flagship in warp travel into, like, a Nurgle storm.

Josh:

The whole ship got, like, corrupted.

Josh:

And the only way they would be saved is of Mortarion except a Nurgle.

Josh:

And this guy hated anything to do with the warp.

Josh:

He rejected Psychers, hated, like, the Thousand Sons, blah, blah, blah.

Josh:

And.

Josh:

But Typhus became so juiced up as, like, a reward.

Josh:

He carries the.

Josh:

Oh, my God, what's it called?

Josh:

The Destroyer Plague.

Josh:

The Fly Eater pack.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

He is a walking, like, beehive now of just flies and maggots, and Mortarion is just this sad bastard because he didn't want this.

Josh:

He's one of the only Chaos Boys that didn't want to do this.

Josh:

But he valued the lives of his sons, however that would actually happen over them, just, like, rotting away.

Johnny:

Man, that's rough.

Josh:

Yeah, right.

Josh:

But, you know, the word bearers did engineer everything into motion.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

When you're not sure who to blame, just blame the word bearers.

Johnny:

Right.

Josh:

Fudge.

Josh:

Erebus.

Johnny:

Well, the Death Guards, aesthetically, are pussy and covered in boils and weird mouths in weird spots.

Johnny:

They tend to be a little plumper than some of the other models due to whatever is going on inside Death Guard.

Josh:

More like dad Bodguard.

Johnny:

Oh, yeah.

Johnny:

Yep.

Johnny:

It's gross and at the same time, kind of cool.

Johnny:

Like, their models are probably some of the most detailed in the range.

Josh:

I know.

Josh:

Their character sculpts are next level oh.

Johnny:

Man, they're so cool.

Johnny:

And I just wish everyone else got anything close to what they get.

Johnny:

Mortarion is beautiful.

Josh:

Their range bumped me up, like, two or three points.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

These guys scored surprisingly high for an army I would never collect.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I'm tempted now, like you are doing Thousand Sons.

Josh:

A maid of ours is doing the next faction we're going to talk about.

Josh:

No one's in Death Guard right now.

Johnny:

No one is in Death Guard right now.

Johnny:

But I thought you were holding out for a hero, which we'll get to soon.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Anyway, we'll talk about that soon.

Josh:

The Death Guard originally were, like, the toughest bastards out of the original legions.

Josh:

The Thousand Sons were your scholars, but the Death Guard were like the folks you sent into, like, you know, poisonous war zones and, like, swampy terrains.

Josh:

And they, like, were fine about it.

Josh:

They're naturally very resilient folks.

Josh:

They were able to actually not immediately die to Nurgle.

Josh:

Surprisingly, other Space Marines would have.

Josh:

They're just tough bastards.

Josh:

Back in the day, they didn't even care to clean their armor.

Josh:

They were just rusty and gross because they were just going from one terrible place to the next.

Josh:

And that's really blossomed with Papa Nurgle's blessings into what you.

Josh:

What you said already.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Oh, yeah.

Josh:

In Law In Lord, they are meant to be like your immovable wall.

Josh:

The Necrons get back up, you know, but they, like, can be put down.

Josh:

The Death Guard are meant to, like, tank, quite literally, with their bodies, like damage.

Josh:

They move, like, probably the slowest in the whole game, but you're gonna have a tough time getting rid of them.

Josh:

And they're bringing, like, plague auras up the board with them that worsen a couple of your, like, statistics, like, your toughness and stuff like that.

Josh:

So you become easier to hit when you're close to them because you're sick.

Johnny:

Now, which is a pretty cool aesthetic.

Josh:

Yeah.

Johnny:

And has decent implications in the game as well.

Josh:

Yep.

Josh:

Shall we just go to our Slag rating?

Josh:

We've spoken heaps about Nurgle already.

Josh:

It's pretty obvious what they are.

Johnny:

Why don't you take the lead on this one?

Josh:

All right.

Josh:

I am Emma.

Josh:

An odd mixture here for accessibility.

Josh:

Number five.

Josh:

Great sculpts.

Josh:

Fantastic sculpts.

Josh:

I really hope that when they get a Codex, there's, like, a character focus list, because, hot damn, the gameplay 5i, if you haven't noticed, love not dying in this game.

Josh:

I love to outlive my opponent.

Josh:

So, you know, whether the weather, my plague, boys and girls style, normally I'd be turned off.

Josh:

But they're not like horrifying murderers with skulls on their back.

Josh:

You know, they're just gross and unhinged.

Josh:

I kind of dig it.

Josh:

Like, I kind of dig this version of horrifying.

Josh:

So 5.

Josh:

But Philora gave them a 1.

Josh:

I just don't care about their background.

Josh:

So I had like a 5.

Josh:

1 and then 5 and 5.

Josh:

So it was 16.

Josh:

Interesting beat out Thousand Sons.

Johnny:

Interesting.

Josh:

Almost beat out Chaos Marine.

Josh:

Actually, no they didn't.

Josh:

I think my original notes just straight up beat out Chaos Marines and Thousand Sons.

Johnny:

Well, for Death Guard, I gave them a five for style again.

Johnny:

Yeah, no, they.

Johnny:

They're so cool looking models.

Johnny:

Their whole style fits in with every single model because they've put so much effort into the sculpts.

Josh:

I didn't even mention the vehicles.

Johnny:

Oh, the vehicles are gross.

Josh:

They have like an aerial drone which is technically a lawnmower now because it's infected with a nurgle demon.

Josh:

So they have this like aerial one man drone that's now a demon engine that like spews plagues and when you're sick, just like dive bombs you with this like rolling pin that's spiky.

Josh:

Anyway, sorry to interject.

Johnny:

For lore, I've given them a two.

Johnny:

Again.

Johnny:

Just.

Johnny:

Yeah, I just don't care.

Johnny:

But then for accessibility, I gave them a 4 because the range is sick, dude.

Johnny:

You get to paint them in some really weird and different styles.

Johnny:

Mistakes come off as purposeful.

Johnny:

It could always just be, you know, a bit of a rash.

Johnny:

But for gameplay I gave them a three.

Johnny:

I don't really know a lot about their gameplay other than that they're really tanky in.

Johnny:

In my like, brain due to me playing Chaos Space Marines.

Johnny:

The.

Johnny:

The nurgle keyword tends to be used on ranged units, but these guys aren't for the most part.

Johnny:

And also they have a small aura around them, which means they don't want to be enraged.

Johnny:

They want to get close to the enemy.

Johnny:

So for me, that's like a weird.

Josh:

The aura gets bigger as the game goes on.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

But it just feels weird in my brain because of previous stuff.

Josh:

Yeah, there was a lot of hoo ha.

Josh:

When the start of 10th edition rules came out, everyone was like, not my Death Guard.

Josh:

Who's this?

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

Which put me at a 14 for these guys.

Johnny:

Still surprisingly high.

Josh:

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing them with plague tinted glasses here.

Josh:

I completely agree with your caveats, but I'm very optimistic about what's to come.

Johnny:

Oh, their codex is going to be great.

Johnny:

Moving on.

Johnny:

World leaders, which are the devoted of horn, the angriest of boys.

Josh:

I feel rage building up inside me, Johnny.

Johnny:

Their primark was Angoron, you know, the angriest of boys, Angry Rob, and the only one in the entire faction that didn't want this.

Josh:

Oh, my Lord.

Josh:

Angron is the most tragic primarch, in my opinion.

Josh:

You have, like, the Night Lords, the Terror Boys.

Josh:

The guy, like, edged himself into being the bad guy, quite maybe literally.

Josh:

Angry Ron was like his.

Josh:

His baby version crash landed into a gladiator planet, and then some old tech was stuffed into, like, the base of his skull to remove, like, sensory pleasure from any emotion except anger.

Josh:

So he's just pissed off unless he's violent.

Josh:

Which made for a great gladiator, but a terrible person.

Josh:

And supposedly, the Emperor's original plan for the World Eaters was actually to be, like, the medics of the Space Marine legions.

Josh:

So.

Josh:

Well, that didn't go well.

Josh:

And then his whole legion, really, because they're literally, like, part of him.

Josh:

Like, they're kind of, like descendants.

Josh:

All the Primarchs have, like, little bits of them embedded as an organ in the other Space Marines.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

They have this fatherly reverence to their Primark, whether they're a frothing maniac or not.

Josh:

And the World Eaters went and, like, found this tech and just, like, voluntarily did it to themselves.

Josh:

And so you just have this crazy pack of rabid dogs.

Josh:

But they're also Space Marines.

Johnny:

They are your melee brutes for chaos.

Josh:

Space Marines, the most melee est army in the whole game.

Johnny:

They move so fast.

Johnny:

They run in and they hit you with their axes.

Johnny:

Two axes sometimes, or just a big chain.

Johnny:

Glaive these.

Johnny:

These guys are pretty cool, if you're into that vibe.

Josh:

They.

Josh:

They wear themselves on their sleeves so hard.

Johnny:

They're the epitome of anger and frustration.

Johnny:

For me, I didn't gel as much with these guys.

Johnny:

I think they're very one note.

Josh:

Yep.

Josh:

But they are.

Josh:

They do it well, though.

Johnny:

Angron's backstory is so sad.

Josh:

Makes grown men cry.

Johnny:

And it's not even just, like, getting stuck on the wrong planet every step of the way.

Johnny:

Everything went against him.

Josh:

Do you know?

Josh:

Like, heresy, error.

Josh:

Angron, if you've ever seen artwork of him, he has all these skulls on his belt.

Josh:

Do you know who they are?

Johnny:

His brothers.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

That he couldn't save.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

He went back and was like, I failed you.

Josh:

Come with me.

Johnny:

It's insane the things this man went through.

Johnny:

He didn't even want to be a demon.

Johnny:

He ended up Being a demon, his.

Josh:

Word bearer brother, like, tricked him into becoming the first, like, demon primarch.

Josh:

The others, like, kind of had to just go with it, but Engron was, like, he was okay not being one.

Johnny:

He just got punched in the gut every step of the way.

Josh:

He literally.

Josh:

He exited his, like, birthing pod to a bunch of elder, like, hit squad that, like, saw the future and were like, not this guy.

Josh:

He's gotta go now.

Josh:

We're killing a baby.

Josh:

Who cares?

Josh:

And he killed them as a baby.

Josh:

And the only time he knows peace is when he gets blown up, only.

Johnny:

Knowing that he will come back very soon.

Josh:

Oh, my goodness.

Josh:

Wow.

Johnny:

Unfortunately for me, Angron couldn't save them.

Josh:

He's not even my favorite character here.

Johnny:

No.

Johnny:

But my Slag ratings are fairly middling for these guys.

Josh:

Cool.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Go on, please.

Johnny:

For style, I've given them a three.

Josh:

Yeah, fair.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

For Lore, I've given them a two.

Johnny:

This would be a one if Angron didn't have such a tragic backstory.

Johnny:

But they are very one.

Josh:

They are.

Johnny:

For accessibility, I've given them a three, mainly because they don't have their full range yet.

Johnny:

They've been told that they will get their range in two waves, and we've only received the first one, so they're missing a lot of tools in their pack.

Johnny:

The models they do have do look pretty cool, though.

Johnny:

They definitely have that, like, skull and bones aesthetic.

Johnny:

The big melee weapons, very little in the way of shooting, and some cool sculpts.

Johnny:

They just need some more stuff.

Johnny:

And then for gameplay, I've given them a two.

Josh:

You just don't like melee as much, eh?

Johnny:

Which is funny, considering most of my army is in melee.

Johnny:

But they just.

Johnny:

They're so one.

Johnny:

No, the Blessings of Khorne is a cool little mechanic having, like, a random chance at a buff or two.

Josh:

Yep.

Johnny:

And there's also a chance you get nothing at all.

Johnny:

But outside of that, they just don't gel with me as much as some of the other sub factions and other Chaos factions do.

Johnny:

So I just couldn't rate them much higher than a 10.

Josh:

A 10's okay.

Johnny:

Yeah, it's fine.

Josh:

Middle of the road, right?

Josh:

I love them.

Josh:

I have to admit, I, especially, through the Imperium, tried to be as optimistic as I could.

Josh:

In this instance, though, I genuinely love them.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

And that I think anything above a 15 is me really liking them.

Josh:

But, like, the 10 to 15 is me just being nice.

Josh:

Okay, that came out wrong, but I feel like you get my point.

Josh:

The World Eaters, so, so humorously.

Josh:

Creeped up on me because they're not subtle, but they kind of just like came out in ninth edition.

Josh:

And just like as the weeks go by I'm like, you know what, I'm down.

Josh:

If it wasn't for our friend picking World Eaters, I might have done them as my next army.

Josh:

But I have the classic case of choosing an army and then one of our friends is like, nah, I'm gonna take that one.

Johnny:

You just gotta pull the trigger sooner.

Josh:

I do, but I also have an extensive backlog of necrons.

Josh:

Anyway, anyway.

Josh:

4k points later.

Josh:

Anyway, World Eaters for style.

Josh:

I gave them a 5.

Josh:

They're so unapologetically themselves and I'm down for it.

Josh:

Berserkers.

Josh:

We don't really have a melee crazed bunch of maniacs like these guys and I'm happy for them.

Josh:

For lore I actually gave them a three.

Josh:

I don't really you know, resonate with their like plight of being angry all the time, but there are some characters like Lord Avocado actually Lord Invocatus and his like flaming Valkyries.

Josh:

I'm joking around but you read up on Lord Invokatus and you'll get what I mean.

Josh:

Cadre 331 which like old school version of World Eaters.

Josh:

I'm pretty on board for the accessibility.

Josh:

I gave them a four.

Josh:

If I were to get a Chaos Faction, that actually might hinge on their next release wave.

Josh:

We need some of their Lore staples.

Josh:

Their specific Terminators, the Red Butchers.

Josh:

Maybe like some sort of like surgeon.

Josh:

Maybe some anti psycho stuff.

Josh:

Bring back some of their forge world corn specific demon engines like the Kaitan, which is a big metallic beast of burden of a demon in metal.

Josh:

It's cool gameplay.

Josh:

I said they have melee magic because it's just thousand suns mechanic, but melee and that's four.

Josh:

That puts me at a 16 tied with death God.

Josh:

Shall we do like a minute long?

Josh:

Honorable mention for number four.

Johnny:

Emperor's Children don't have a faction yet.

Johnny:

These are the worshipers.

Josh:

They barely have models.

Johnny:

These are the worshippers of Slaanesh.

Johnny:

irst wave of models next year:

Johnny:

That is all we really know for style wise and through reading through.

Johnny:

Well for me the.

Johnny:

The Fabius Bile books, they're pretty cool.

Johnny:

They have some interesting lore.

Johnny:

There's definitely a large emphasis on addiction and vices.

Johnny:

The Noise Marines are really cool concept.

Josh:

Sonic weaponry.

Johnny:

Sonic weaponry through enhancement and demon stuff.

Josh:

They sing you to death.

Johnny:

There's one Terminator Noise Marine whose voice could punch holes in ships.

Josh:

Oh, I didn't know about that guy.

Josh:

Yeah, Lucius the Eternal.

Josh:

They're like one named character.

Josh:

If you kill him in battle but you're happy about it, he becomes you.

Josh:

His armor is just faces of every other person that's killed him.

Johnny:

They have some really cool lore.

Johnny:

We can't really give them a rating because they're not an army yet, but we did want to mention them as the fourth God and the fourth faction.

Josh:

I'm really excited for these folks.

Josh:

Actually.

Josh:

I'm really, like, hedging my Chaos bets about picking this faction myself because they are unapologetically insane.

Josh:

They have this really interesting, like, black and pink color scheme.

Josh:

They have this body modifications, weaponry.

Josh:

They seem to be very oppressive from the lore and gameplay teases we've had.

Josh:

But it's really going to come down to, like, what their army does compared to everyone else.

Josh:

That will really set them apart.

Josh:

But we have one more.

Josh:

We have one more faction that we can talk about before you can go to bed.

Johnny:

Hey, it's not that late yet.

Johnny:

Chaos Knights.

Johnny:

These are my jam.

Johnny:

These are.

Josh:

I almost forgot to make notes on them, but they're your jam.

Johnny:

You constantly forget these guys exist until I'm like, but what about Chaos Knights?

Josh:

Please, please take the stage for your.

Johnny:

These guys are everything I said about Imperial knights, but with the coolest sculpts.

Johnny:

They're giant walking machines.

Johnny:

They still have that noble household vibe, but these guys have started down the Eightfold path of damnation.

Josh:

Yeah.

Johnny:

They are.

Josh:

You said noble houses.

Josh:

I was like, do they, though?

Johnny:

Well, it's where they started.

Josh:

Okay.

Josh:

Yeah.

Johnny:

And then corruption ensued.

Johnny:

We're talking giant, essentially demon engines where the person could be fused into the engine is now no longer in control.

Johnny:

This is the worst of the nobles who have willingly gone down this path.

Johnny:

We have demon possessed knights.

Josh:

Oh, yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

You just answered my question.

Johnny:

There's, There's.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Johnny:

There's just a couple of ways that they like sub factions, AKA how their journey down the path has taken them.

Johnny:

They don't have a codex for 10th edition yet, but I'm expecting to see those different methods of depravity brought forward in their sub factions.

Johnny:

They're big and spiky.

Johnny:

They tend to have these like, vulture like birds called Terror Shades following them around.

Johnny:

They're big on the despair and morale debuffs.

Johnny:

If you're near them, it's enough to be like, oh, I need to get out of here.

Johnny:

They have an aura of despair around them.

Johnny:

They lack the one thing that Imperial Knights recently got, which is foot soldiers.

Johnny:

And, well, they got the entire Imperium faction.

Johnny:

Inquisitional agents.

Josh:

I was daydreaming about, like, making some, like, Attack on Titan memes out of this faction, so I wasn't, like, super listening.

Johnny:

Whereas these guys do not have access to anything except Chaos Demons.

Johnny:

But there's a weird caveat to how you feel to Chaos Demons that makes it a little more difficult.

Johnny:

I'm hoping for some sort of, like, infantry foot soldier mech mechanics when they do get a Codex, but we'll have to wait and see.

Josh:

Imagine Dark Mechanicus folded into this faction with, like, Vashtor as an allied unit.

Johnny:

You've got me going there.

Josh:

Ooh.

Johnny:

They have a little bit of internal balancing issues, and people tend to favor their smaller class, the War Dogs, as opposed to the larger knight class.

Johnny:

But the knight models are so fun to build, so fun to paint.

Johnny:

They leave you with so many extra bits for spiky stuff that you can add to other models.

Johnny:

Like, Chaos Knights are my jam, and they're just so much fun and they look so cool.

Johnny:

How do you feel about Chaos Knights as a faction?

Josh:

I like them more than Imperial Knights, that's for certain.

Johnny:

Yep.

Josh:

I love the spectrum they bring from, like, a Lore perspective and a stylistic perspective especially.

Josh:

You can add a lot of bits to sort of reflect various Chaos Gods compared to just, like, paint and banners to represent, like, the Imperial Knight heraldry.

Johnny:

They're a kit Bash's dream.

Josh:

Same sort of like, oh my God, can't even.

Josh:

Words like.

Josh:

Issues I had with the Imperial Knights is what I'm having here.

Josh:

Just the lack of, like, a couple of, like, those sort of added henchmen units.

Josh:

A bit more of that Allied support.

Josh:

Like, I know when we first you.

Josh:

You rely, you know, kind of exclusively on one chassis of Night Body, the.

Josh:

The littler ones.

Josh:

And you've got, like, these three or four bigger knights, but then you have nothing else.

Josh:

So for me to like them more, I would need more of that.

Josh:

I don't have much to really say on them, if I'm being completely honest, except for I like them more than Imperial Knights, but you're really the one holding their banner here.

Josh:

Did you give them a perfect score?

Johnny:

No.

Josh:

I think I know where or where the score might drop, though.

Josh:

But I'll let you give us your thought processes.

Josh:

Maybe say what you would like them to improve on, especially considering, like, this is your faction and I love how excited you get by them.

Johnny:

So I gave them an 18, which does put them on par with CSM.

Johnny:

I gave them a five for style.

Johnny:

I think the models are sick.

Johnny:

They really show that chaos aesthetic.

Johnny:

They do have the trim, but the trim is more interesting than the Imperial Knights stuff.

Johnny:

They have more loadouts and less loadouts at the same time than the Imperial Knights.

Johnny:

They've been simplified a little bit.

Johnny:

That kind of makes more sense.

Johnny:

And I really struggle getting my head around the Imperial Knights more than I do the Chaos Knights.

Josh:

Did they get the really.

Josh:

The really big knights from the Horus heresy?

Josh:

The was it lances?

Johnny:

Yes.

Johnny:

But there's cool.

Johnny:

They have access to them.

Johnny:

But you do have to kit bash them if you want to make them look like a spiky mess.

Josh:

Okay.

Johnny:

For Lore, I gave them a four.

Johnny:

And I feel like this is hyper inflated by my love for this army.

Johnny:

For most people, it's probably a lot lower because they don't really have a lot of lore.

Johnny:

I think they have a lot of interesting theories and possibilities behind them, but they just don't have the huge impact that a lot of people will probably see and expect from, like, other factions.

Johnny:

For accessibility, I gave them a 4.

Johnny:

You can buy one kit and make it into most of their knights.

Johnny:

You can then buy another kit and make it into any of their war dogs.

Johnny:

Like, their kits are very well designed to be easily accessible.

Johnny:

They're pretty standard and easy to put together.

Johnny:

The only thing that anyone who has built this army will suggest is paint your chassis and then add the armor plates afterwards just to make it easier.

Johnny:

But these guys are a Kitbash's dream.

Johnny:

Like, you can throw all sorts of weird and wacky ideas at these guys and make anything you want out of them.

Johnny:

And then for gameplay, I gave them a five.

Johnny:

They're so fun.

Johnny:

And it's not anything to do with the fact that they have a Codex or that there isn't potential.

Johnny:

But man, it's just fun to throw giant death machines across the table and doing it with that chaos despair vibe.

Johnny:

Like, even if I get wiped off the table because I'm an idiot, it doesn't happen.

Johnny:

Tell it to Jon Jon.

Josh:

Okay.

Johnny:

Even if I get wiped off the table, I have such a blast doing it.

Josh:

Yeah, the fun.

Josh:

You definitely bring a lot of that fun energy this hobby really needs.

Josh:

Some people take it a bit too seriously.

Josh:

And you bring like four or five murder machines as tall as our terrain and have so much fun doing it.

Josh:

I can't even be mad if I'm, like losing terribly because it's just a blast.

Josh:

Do you Remember at the start of 10th edition when we had our first ever game when I played Index, which was the like pre Codex rules for Necrons and it really favored a sort of reanimation nigh invulnerability, like silver tide of bodies.

Josh:

And I didn't have enough strong weapons to bring down any of your knights in a, you know, efficient manner.

Josh:

And you didn't have enough knights platforms to kill me faster than I was reanimating.

Johnny:

It was just none of us were.

Josh:

Able to score anything.

Josh:

We were just in the middle, just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom for like five rounds and called it a draw.

Josh:

Like quite literally a draw.

Johnny:

It was an interesting time both for our learning purposes and oh, we were so incorrect.

Johnny:

Oh, we had no idea what we're doing back then.

Josh:

Do you have anything else to say about them?

Johnny:

Chaos Knights?

Josh:

They are pretty cool.

Josh:

I actually miscalculated.

Josh:

I like them more than demons, which means they're not my least favorite Chaos Faction.

Johnny:

Which is great considering you always forget they exist.

Josh:

It's.

Josh:

It's just the big model thing.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

Just I just focus on the.

Johnny:

They feel very out of place on the tabletop and they're kind of like a stat check.

Josh:

Especially when like every other factions lost a lot of the access to their bigger titanic units.

Josh:

The Eldar Knights, the Necron Monoliths are kind of there, the Orc Stompers are not feasible, etc.

Josh:

I just.

Josh:

I just don't see it.

Johnny:

Yeah.

Josh:

But I gave them a four for style.

Josh:

Very cool.

Josh:

Very spooky.

Josh:

Love it.

Josh:

Infernal War Engines.

Josh:

Very cool.

Josh:

For lore, I gave them a 3.

Josh:

Very fun as a concept.

Josh:

There's this one like Core Night I think we talked about before that we'll save maybe for a later episode for accessibility.

Josh:

I gave them a four because it's very cheap to get them.

Josh:

They would be a 5 if they had the little dudes and some support.

Josh:

But for gameplay, I gave them a two.

Josh:

I just.

Josh:

I'm.

Josh:

I'm just.

Josh:

I'm indifferent.

Johnny:

It's not your jam.

Josh:

That's fair.

Josh:

It's not my jam.

Josh:

I'm just indifferent.

Josh:

But you know, we're not the start and end of critical opinion here.

Josh:

You.

Josh:

You definitely just go with what you want to go with.

Johnny:

Oh, this is totally subjective.

Josh:

We try to be objective and then subjective.

Josh:

Sometimes it doesn't quite sequence like that.

Josh:

But please be very open minded to everything we've talked about today.

Josh:

Do some more research.

Josh:

Look up battle reports such as play on tabletop, certain YouTubers like Luton's really fantastic on deep diving the Law.

Josh:

Go on a Games Workshop's website and look at the various models.

Josh:

Combat patrols, your best starting point.

Josh:

We have spent four episodes and have covered all the factions in the game, including the ones that aren't even factions in the game yet.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Well done us.

Josh:

Go us.

Josh:

Next episode is going to be a different topic entirely.

Josh:

We'll save that for then.

Josh:

How are you feeling, Mr.

Josh:

Chaos?

Johnny:

I'm.

Johnny:

I can't get the smile off my face.

Josh:

I won't lie that we're done or that you talked about Chaos episode.

Johnny:

That I finally got to get to the Chaos episode.

Josh:

We could have done it earlier, but.

Johnny:

No, I wanted to save it to the end.

Josh:

Cool.

Josh:

I'm surprised myself at how positive I was overall.

Josh:

There's more Chaos in the top half than any other faction collective.

Josh:

So that's fun.

Josh:

That's fun.

Josh:

Nice.

Josh:

Sweet.

Josh:

Any closing remarks, my dear friend?

Johnny:

Just looking back, it looks like I gave quite a few armies the top slot lot.

Josh:

Oh, you have some ties.

Johnny:

I have four armies at 18.

Johnny:

Who are.

Josh:

Who are your top picks?

Johnny:

Necrons, Orcs at the top.

Johnny:

Yep, all at 18.

Johnny:

Necrons, Orcs, chaos Space Marines and Chaos Knights were my tied for first factions, which I think yours was a flat 20 for Necrons.

Josh:

I had 20 was Necrons.

Josh:

I am awfully Necron pilled when at first it was just a nice interest.

Josh:

Now I'm super.

Josh:

In second place was Craftworld Eldar at a 19, which was my original pick before I went to Necrons.

Josh:

In third place was Sisters of Battle, which makes sense considering I have roughly 1k of points on sprues right now.

Josh:

More on that in a later episode.

Josh:

And then I actually have my fourth place tied three ways between Blood Angels, Chaos Blood Angels, World Eaters and the Death Guard.

Josh:

Actually interesting.

Josh:

What.

Josh:

What do you think about those ratings?

Johnny:

I'm glad that we had a lot different armies in the top picks.

Johnny:

It really goes to show that, like, everyone will resonate differently with this game.

Johnny:

Obviously we've given everyone a brief sort of summary into what these armies can do, what they feel like, how we feel about them.

Johnny:

It's.

Josh:

It's always give me your least favorite.

Josh:

Like give me a couple from the bottom.

Johnny:

We're talking least favorites.

Josh:

I mean, I could go while you.

Johnny:

Look up Astra Militarum at a five, Adeptus Mechanicus at a seven, Blood Angels at an eight.

Josh:

Oh, my point.

Johnny:

And Codex Astartes at a nine, tied with Black Templar.

Josh:

I can't be mad at that.

Josh:

Codex Astartes I feel the Space Marine pain at the moment.

Johnny:

Oh, sorry.

Johnny:

And League of Oten?

Johnny:

A six.

Josh:

Oh, all right.

Josh:

I only had two that were below a ten, because again, ten was like my baseline.

Josh:

Seven was Mechanicus.

Josh:

That's my lowest.

Johnny:

Yep.

Josh:

Nine was Astra Militarum.

Josh:

They have cool models.

Josh:

They're new.

Josh:

That's probably what kept them above being lower.

Josh:

Space wolves were 10 and tied with Votan.

Josh:

And Imperial Knights just eeked above them.

Josh:

But that's fun.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

We'll talk about a different topic altogether next episode.

Josh:

And I will spoil it by saying it's a birthday episode of mine and I want to talk about Necrons.

Johnny:

Let's do it.

Johnny:

Eh?

Josh:

Let's do it.

Josh:

We'll catch you next week.

Josh:

Thank you so much for listening, you cheeky boys.

Josh:

Watch out for whispers in your head from Dark Powers that Be.

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About the Podcast

TTP Field Manual
Joshy and Jonny are here to Play Games, Read Books, Roll Dice, and Trust the Process
Our Community Discord: https://discord.gg/2cxVdKGN4J
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TTPFieldManual
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From the grimdark depths of Warhammer to the weird corners of indie skirmish games, we’re here to help you explore, expand, and enjoy 'hobby'—wherever it takes us. Expect insights, unfiltered opinions, and an approachable take on miniature wargaming, model releases, lore deep-dives, rambles, and the occasional video game or book chat.

Join us as we light the way for gamers, hobbyists, and lore fanatics through the ever-expanding worlds of tabletop gaming, with new episodes weekly. Whether you're a battle-hardened gamer or eyeing your first box set, you're in good company.

About your hosts

Joshua Bryant

Profile picture for Joshua Bryant
By day, Joshy is a therapist; by night, he's an RPG aficionado who grew up on (not-so) Final Fantasies and crafting his own Dungeons & Dragons worlds.

Josh loves sci-fantasy, and so is quite at home with Warhammer! He plays Necrons, Adepta Sororitas, and Aeldari. His playstyle is reserved and cagey, preferring to outmaneuver his opponents before delivering the killing blow. His painting approach is a blend of fast painting styles and technical effects. He's the resident lore expert and wishes he could apply his encyclopaedic brain to other areas of life.

Jonathan Langtree

Profile picture for Jonathan Langtree
Jonny, a technician, spends his downtime conquering more video games than Joshy can keep track of.

Jonny is a big fan of magic in his games and putting together vicious combos. He's the de facto Champion of Chaos when it comes to Warhammer, playing Chaos Knights, Thousand Sons, and Chaos Space Marines. He loves synergistic army lists and is always putting together new ideas. His painting approach is classic 'Eavy Metal.